Why does it matter how an individual person chooses to identify in terms of woman or man? So what if a person who identifies as a man has a baby? How does this affect anyone else?
1. Knowing yourself. Just because I say I have wings and can fly doesn’t make it so. There are objective truths about ourselves we have to discover.
2. Knowing our origin. Inevitably, we find that these views of gender are tied to an origin story. Is it true God made humans male and female? That matters.
3. The law. We pass laws about objective reality not about what we subjectively believe. If someone is guilty, that doesn’t change bc they believe they are innocent.
4. Words have meaning. Remember Humpty Dumpty in Alice? He said he uses words to mean whatever he wants and Alice correctly pointed out that makes communication impossible.
People who identify as different from the binary male and female have come to know/discover that this is objective truth for them as those who come to know themselves as congruent with their male, female, or intersex (both male and female genitalia).
In response to #2:
God made people who are born with only male genitalia, people who are born with only female genitalia, and people who are born with both male and female genitalia (intersex). That is objective truth, as is the truth that God made people with sexual orientations that may be different from a heterosexual orientation that the majority of people share.
In response to 3:
Laws have been passed on the binary beliefs of male and female and heteronormativity; consequently, these laws may discriminate against those nonconformists; for example, the marriage equality issue.
In response to 4:
I agree that we cannot understand one another if we do not share the same meaning for words. I am not sure what your argument is here. Do you mean that once we assign meaning to a word, then we cannot change it?
1. Except that isn’t objective. The objective truth has do to with the physical not their inner changing opinions. I’m not a human because I feel like one. I’m a human for objective reasons. If they think have discovered objective facts then they can share these with us and we can all use reason to see if they are right or not right.
2. Very very few are born with that birth defect and the people we are talking about aren’t saying they are a pregnant man for that reason.
3. When the law makes it illegal to abuse a pregnant women we all need a definition of woman. That isn’t discrimination or heteronormativity that is objective reality.
4. Thus, “woman” means the same for all and she should have been able to define woman in a discussion about a law concerning pregnant women.
Response to #1: People can identify their genitalia. The point is that they identify as different from their genitalia. God made them that way, and they express themselves thusly. I just do not see the harm.
Response to #2:
Again, when people say that they are a pregnant man, do we not understand that they have a female reproductive biology, but feel inside as a man or masculine. Again, where is the harm? This is their objective reality. Also, intersex people may take issue to the word “defect” to describe their birth difference. Defect can mean a fault or imperfection that needs to be “fixed.” Maybe they are happy with how they were born and do not want to be fixed; on the other hand, maybe they want to make a surgical change. In the past and possibly currently, when doctors would see this difference, they would decide for the baby whether to “change” them surgically to conform to one sex or the other. Lots of information can be had on this subject.
Response to #3:
Pregnant is a biological reality. Why isn’t the word pregnant good enough? Why do we need to attach the word woman?
Response to #4:
I have not read her entire argument. I was responding to your statements.
Great discussion! Helps us to understand each other’s differences better.
1. “They identify different from their genitalia” is the subjective part. Like me requiring everyone to believe I can fly. It simply isn’t true and the harm is it isn’t healthy to not connect our beliefs to reality.
2. The “feeling inside” is the subject part. What is a woman? And what does it mean to feel like one? In every other area of life, when a persons feelings do not represent reality we recognize there is a problem. That’s why this was called gender dysmorphia. God made us as either male or female and we don’t determine which one. If our feelings don’t match then we have to find out why and how to fix that. This view makes feelings primarily over the objective world.
Why does it matter how an individual person chooses to identify in terms of woman or man? So what if a person who identifies as a man has a baby? How does this affect anyone else?
Here’s a few ways it matters:
1. Knowing yourself. Just because I say I have wings and can fly doesn’t make it so. There are objective truths about ourselves we have to discover.
2. Knowing our origin. Inevitably, we find that these views of gender are tied to an origin story. Is it true God made humans male and female? That matters.
3. The law. We pass laws about objective reality not about what we subjectively believe. If someone is guilty, that doesn’t change bc they believe they are innocent.
4. Words have meaning. Remember Humpty Dumpty in Alice? He said he uses words to mean whatever he wants and Alice correctly pointed out that makes communication impossible.
In response to #1:
People who identify as different from the binary male and female have come to know/discover that this is objective truth for them as those who come to know themselves as congruent with their male, female, or intersex (both male and female genitalia).
In response to #2:
God made people who are born with only male genitalia, people who are born with only female genitalia, and people who are born with both male and female genitalia (intersex). That is objective truth, as is the truth that God made people with sexual orientations that may be different from a heterosexual orientation that the majority of people share.
In response to 3:
Laws have been passed on the binary beliefs of male and female and heteronormativity; consequently, these laws may discriminate against those nonconformists; for example, the marriage equality issue.
In response to 4:
I agree that we cannot understand one another if we do not share the same meaning for words. I am not sure what your argument is here. Do you mean that once we assign meaning to a word, then we cannot change it?
I agree, good discussion, thank you! I always look forward to talking with you.
1. Except that isn’t objective. The objective truth has do to with the physical not their inner changing opinions. I’m not a human because I feel like one. I’m a human for objective reasons. If they think have discovered objective facts then they can share these with us and we can all use reason to see if they are right or not right.
2. Very very few are born with that birth defect and the people we are talking about aren’t saying they are a pregnant man for that reason.
3. When the law makes it illegal to abuse a pregnant women we all need a definition of woman. That isn’t discrimination or heteronormativity that is objective reality.
4. Thus, “woman” means the same for all and she should have been able to define woman in a discussion about a law concerning pregnant women.
Response to #1: People can identify their genitalia. The point is that they identify as different from their genitalia. God made them that way, and they express themselves thusly. I just do not see the harm.
Response to #2:
Again, when people say that they are a pregnant man, do we not understand that they have a female reproductive biology, but feel inside as a man or masculine. Again, where is the harm? This is their objective reality. Also, intersex people may take issue to the word “defect” to describe their birth difference. Defect can mean a fault or imperfection that needs to be “fixed.” Maybe they are happy with how they were born and do not want to be fixed; on the other hand, maybe they want to make a surgical change. In the past and possibly currently, when doctors would see this difference, they would decide for the baby whether to “change” them surgically to conform to one sex or the other. Lots of information can be had on this subject.
Response to #3:
Pregnant is a biological reality. Why isn’t the word pregnant good enough? Why do we need to attach the word woman?
Response to #4:
I have not read her entire argument. I was responding to your statements.
Great discussion! Helps us to understand each other’s differences better.
1. “They identify different from their genitalia” is the subjective part. Like me requiring everyone to believe I can fly. It simply isn’t true and the harm is it isn’t healthy to not connect our beliefs to reality.
2. The “feeling inside” is the subject part. What is a woman? And what does it mean to feel like one? In every other area of life, when a persons feelings do not represent reality we recognize there is a problem. That’s why this was called gender dysmorphia. God made us as either male or female and we don’t determine which one. If our feelings don’t match then we have to find out why and how to fix that. This view makes feelings primarily over the objective world.
3. What is a woman?